Fermentis dried yeasts

[mfos]

Listened to the Fermentis presentation in Philadelphia with interest and wondered what experiences anyone has had using these yeasts. I am doing some tests with the Safale S-04 and Safbrew S-33 and so far am pleased. Easy to work with and store, cheap, and the flavor profiles seem to be working. Anyone have any negatives or thoughts on the matter?

[zbrew2k]

I've used most of the line up so far.

The biggest drawback is the price. I have repitched them without too much problem, although that isnt recommended.

If the cost isn't an issue keep using them as they are easy to use.

The flavor profiles are good, and I havent had any problems with bacteria from them. Although I dont use them more than the initial pitch, and maybe the next generation.

Good Luck,
B

[pbutlert]

I was forced to try these yeasts in a brewery where sales were slipping, and propagation was no longer practical. The results were pretty much as good as with liquid yeasts, as I recall the generations did not go as far was the main drawback. But the price, variety and ease of use more than made up for it. As far as I know, this brewery is still using them with some success. It really dropped the "homebrew" attitude I had toward dried yeasts. Go for it if it works for you!

[tariq khan]

I'm a big fan of Safale yeasts, flavors are elegant, fermentations are consistent. I do however find beers that we have used Safale US-56 to be quite lively
at racking (into cask) sometimes too lively !

The yeast flocculates well also...we've done an organic cask bitter that dropped bright without Isinglass.

I think the cost is worth it.

Tariq (Dark Star Brewery)

[jipjanneke]

A question regarding pitching this brand of yeast, the instructions on the pack recommend either rehydrating into a quantity of wort and then pitching the mix into the fermenter, or sprinkling on top of the wort as it is going into the fermenter.

Does anyone use the second method (it's obviously easier!), and if so, can you please compare the results with the first?

[RobZamites]

I just carefully (and as sanitarily as possible) added the dry yeast to the wort throught the manway as it was pumping out of the heat exchanger into the fermenter. Close the manway, spray down with iodophor and finish my knockout -- I usually had active fermentation within 4-5 hours.

YMMV, as usual.

[gitchegumee]

I've used S-04, S-189, W34-70 and K-97 a few years back when I set up a brewery for folks who wanted it as simple as possible. Dried yeasts offer the benefit of anytime use with no propagation logistics. The S-04 was a great yeast. The others were, unfortunately, miserable. I switched to propagation with liquid cultures for the benefit of the better results with the other beers. Since then, I believe DCL has retooled their product line and may have worked out flavor problems that I encountered.

[damoller]

I've used S-04, S-189, W34-70 and K-97 a few years back when I set up a brewery for folks who wanted it as simple as possible. Dried yeasts offer the benefit of anytime use with no propagation logistics. The S-04 was a great yeast. The others were, unfortunately, miserable. I switched to propagation with liquid cultures for the benefit of the better results with the other beers. Since then, I believe DCL has retooled their product line and may have worked out flavor problems that I encountered.
great yeast
miserable
what exactly do you mean with these descriptions. They are not valuble when ascertaining the value of a product.

[gitchegumee]

Right, sorry. The S-04 was great: Because it cropped well from cylindroconicals, had fast, reliable fermentations and consistent OGs, AND it offered me a way out of logistical issues with culturing five different yeasts for six different beers using 13 fermenters. It's also handy if you somehow ruin your expected yeast pitch for the day. It stores well, ferments clean, and is easy to use.
The others were miserable: Because I had excessive lag times using the lager yeasts at 11C. The flavors were not within style. I would have to pull notes I wrote (that I don't have here) to better describe the flavors. The W-34/70 was particularly weak with any weizen flavor notes. The yeasts flocced poorly. I remember very runny yeast pulls.
I used them for the first time almost three years ago, ran several batches, and gave up with them except for the S-04. I recall hearing that the W-34/70 may have been taken off the market briefly for a product retool a while back. Maybe just a rumor.
Hope this helps! Cheers!

[Sir Brewsalot]

Can anyone provide a US source for this yeast? Sounds like something I may want to look at...

Thanks,
Scott

[msmartin]

Crosby and Baker. Get in touch with Jon. Great product, Have had very good results.

[Ted Briggs]

I have used the lager strains when I have not had a extra tank to prop with. Made a very nice bock and pilsner. I used two bricks for a 11.5 bbl pitch to avoid problems though. (still the same cost liquid prop up) Also a great thing to have around for stuck fermentations, lack of enough yeast crop, ect.

[Rosie]

Guys,

I've been using s23 saflager on a homebrew scale and have had good results with this yeast, even fermenting up into high ale temps, without noticable (by me) side effects.

Has anyone used this yeast beyond the homebrew level? I've used it across a couple styles with varying fermentation parameters and haven't been disappointed...been repitching once before buying a new pack.

Chrs,

[RobZamites]

Rosie,
I used Safale S-04 a commercial brewery (20bbl), and had great results. Highly flocculant, clean ferment, nice crisp profile on my IPA.

[Brew Chef]

Guys,

I've been using s23 saflager on a homebrew scale and have had good results with this yeast, even fermenting up into high ale temps, without noticable (by me) side effects.

Has anyone used this yeast beyond the homebrew level? I've used it across a couple styles with varying fermentation parameters and haven't been disappointed...been repitching once before buying a new pack.

Chrs,

we've used it for our california common and fermented at high temp....about 68 degrees. Worked well and had a distinctly different flavor than safale s-04.

[Phil]

I only these yeasts, somewhat through I don't brew regularly enough to justify wet pitches, but I also like some of them.

US-05, cal ale, 001/1056. There are people who say that there are slight differences between the three versions, and those that say it I am inclined to support - but, whether the punter knows... I doubt it. This is the stock yeast we use, ferms well, flocks out, little sulphur issues on occasion (but that could be my water treatment) - we get very nice bright beers. Standard ferm anything between 18-22'c (I have "accidentally" ferm'd at 26'c+ with little negative effect) - starts to crap out at below 15'c, but will still slow ferment - I have cold conditioned with this, as much as I can at 9'c to give a kolsch-esque type brew, minus a fruity/estery nose. Blends well with other more distinctive strains ;-)

K97 - very fine powdery yeast. Ferm'd with good krausen. 4 days at 16'c then dropped to 9'c and hold (as low as I can go) for two weeks. We did, with adjunct fining & Isiinglas (and P'floc in kettle) get a nice clear beer. Whether this was a true Kolsch, having not lagered, I doubt it, but I will use it again.

T58 - hefty belgian strain. very very belgian. Hard to floc out. I found best used in blend with a low ester english/US ale strain. 70/30 80/20 - low end for t58. Start warm and ramp down to get nice "belgian" notes. Made an english hopped IPA, with this - it was just tooooo much. I wished I had just used a %'ge of that strain, rather. It took ages to lose a really heavy nose, and mellow down to a sound belgian note.

s33, fast ferment. Strange flavoured yeast. Bottled well, beer only tasted nice when the yeast wasn't in suspension. I am told that this is a delirium/huyghe strain, or part of. The beer, only once warm conditioned did it start to take on a belgian-y note. It was otherwise very spicy. I would use it again as a bottling yeast.

So4. diacetyl bomb if you're not careful. Oxygenate, rouse and rest. makes great dark UK ales. It's supposed to be a Whitbread strain. Works well, clears well, ferms fast but the potential for Diacetyl is too much for me, being a fan of the US05. (I have however blended to reduce this note, with the US05)

S23, lagered in freezer as a homebrewer, gave a very very nice clean lager. Want to try this for a steam beer.

WB? not heard great things about this. can't really comment further, as I haven't actually used it, so perhaps best ignoring me on that one.

The dry rest? Windsor, Nottingham? There is a wit beer yeast somewhere?

and there is another lager strain from Fermentis?


hope that helps?

[GeorgeJ]

totally agree with sulphur issues from US-05 sometimes. we have had a few eggy stinkers which needed a hell of alot of co2 bubbling through and holding under pressure.

so4 is a great yeast, the attenuation is pretty poor though flocculation is great.

[Sulfur]

Never had sulfur issues with it.

[dick murton]

Well

After setting up on my own, I wasn't going to go into the micro brewing world as the main source of income, but guess what ??????

Anyway, we wanted to get going PDQ, so after seeing this and asking a few other people, I tried S04 yeast

Never again. I know the temperature control wasn't great, and wort oxygenation is to say the least not brilliant - but that was part of the supposed strength of dried yeast

The beer came out smelling like Sauvignon Blanc, not beer. Dropped like a stone leaving pretty clear beer and fermented like a dream in terms of SG reduction, but.....

Fresh yeast here we come


Cheers

[tariq khan]

Wow,

I'm really surprised to hear your dismal results Dick. I've always had a clean neutral flavour from S-04, never any Diacetyl or weird aromas in the 5+ years I've been using it. I've had a few instances in England also where our cooling broke down and ended up fermenting high (26-27 C).

Strange.

T

[dick murton]

Ah, the neutral flavour. If you discount the vinous aroma, you are right, it doesn't add anything. However we were hoping for a little more character. Oh yes it also seemed a little "bready yeast", not from the malt

So I will have to phone around for some yeast tomorrow

Aaah the joys of starting from scratch

Cheers

[Brew Chef]

S-04 has been a workhorse for our brewpub. Agreed that attenuation is poor but we brew styles that allow it....pale ales, IPAs, sweet stout, browns, and reds. I've never gotten a final gravity below 1012 but we don't brew below OG's of 1050 either. I might try blending it with 05 sometime but for the most part I'm stuck on this yeast.

[liammckenna]

S-04 has been a workhorse for our brewpub. Agreed that attenuation is poor but we brew styles that allow it...

I agree. this is also the workhorse of our brewpub.

Doesn't like underpitching generally. Gen1 can be 'vinous' with underaeration.

Subsequent generations can take a lot of punishment though. And can also give you some heady flavour notes. Our 'Fightin' Irish' (ABV 5.5, AE 3.5 oP - dry fermented, high Temp conversion) is underpitched, underoxygenated and fermented at 66 oF.

Can you say higher alcohols? Primary is still only 4 days.

We use others on occasion but this is our mainstay.

Pax.

Liam

[oppigards]

Dick: We have used Saf Ale 04 for years now, 500gr for 2000 liters of wort day one, and then added wort 2 to 4 days more. Never a problem with taste, aroma, floc, attenuation. Vinous aroma??, I doubt that you can claim the yeast for that. But when it is you who says so.... well we pitch dry yeast directly to the fermenter rather warm 23-26 deg celsius, turn down temp to 22-23 when fermentation is started. Sometimes we let it ferment without temperature control. Makes it a bit more fruity but it tastes good.

[gitchegumee]

Gotta join in on the SO4 bandwagon. Although I prefer the Nottingham for incredible attenuation (10.7 down to 1.65), I have used SO4 for years with no off tastes. And I dont oxygenate it at all. I will also highly recommend WB06 used at about 60% of recommended pitch levels and no oxygen. This stress on the yeast really brings out the phenols for a genuine German-style wheat. Great product.

[dick murton]

Well, Thanks for the comments guys

I am struggling to get top fermenting yeast out of any of the local larger (not jumbo) brewers. It really is too much hassle for them to supply it except at exorbitant cost. So it will be back to the Fermentis for the next brew or two. So the next problem will be cropping the stuff for re-use out of a shallow dish vessel

I didn't realise what I was missing working in a big brewery for so long, with really good kit - going back to almost homebrew standards of kit is a whole new ball game - and great fun at present. :D

Cheers

[liammckenna]

Enjoy it for what it is Dick.

Keep doing what you know you do well.

Life is change.

Work is always a process of continuous improvement.

I'll shut me gob now.

Pax.

Liam

[tnknight]

We use Fermentis yeasts in just about every beer we produce. I don't use S-04, but I found oxygenating US-05 on the first pitch produced a tart fruit flavor, inconsistent with the beers I was trying to produce. Both major dry yeast manufacturers have mentioned there are enough lipids within the cell for the first fermentation (for average gravity worts). As soon as I stopped aerating the first pitch, I noticed far better flavor profiles for US-05.

I have used S-189, S-23, and W34/70 and found I would rather save S-189 for darker lagers and bock style beers then use in our house pilsner. I found it too rich for more moderate gravity/paler lagers. No issues with S-23, we just went with W34/70 as it produced the flavor profile we desired.

[Rosie]

Hey Dick,

Sorry to hear your S04 experience...hope you don't blame me, mate!

Sounds like you have a lot of variables.

We use dry S04 for our pale and porter without fail. Pitching 250g / 750l of 1.038 wort dry, no rehydration. We do aerate. We let it go from 18-22 as a general rule.

On the cropping, I think you could top crop it day 2-3 without any problems. Post fermentation I've pulled yeast from bottom as well, using roughly 1l of slurry per UK barrel...Our dish bottom Grundies have a standpipe that we can remove and pull yeast...not great but works when you forget to order yeast.

Have fun!

[beermkr]

I use

US-05 for our Pale and IPA

S-04 for the Red and Brown

S-23 for the Lager and Porter

WB-06 for the Hefe

T-58 for our Seasonal Belgian

As you can tell I am pretty sold on them for the small brewer. I also liked using the US-05 in the bigger brewery and repitching for no more than 5 generations. It got me new yeast more often and actually was cheaper in the long run.

At the brewpub I typically use a new pack each time I brew. The only exception is the Porter which I try to time with the lager so I can pitch a bigger amount.

R/

[dick murton]

"Pitching 250g / 750l of 1.038 wort dry, no rehydration"

Ah, I'm still grossly overpitching it seems. The last brew was 350 g for 6.5 hl, and it went like the clappers - due to final cool it tomorrow am after it has had the diacetyl rest overnight. Cooling is a bit uncontrolled, so dare not try to cool it a mere 2 or 3 degrees tonight first, so will be left warmer that I really would have liked until then

Thanks for the feedback / help guys

Cheers

Dick

[deadvet]

I have been looking to buy fermentis for my brewery but can only find homebrew supplies. where can i get the big packs?

thanks
steve
2nd shift brewing

[v2comp]

I have been looking to buy fermentis for my brewery but can only find homebrew supplies. where can i get the big packs?

thanks
steve
2nd shift brewing


Crosby and Baker Ltd, have (9) different dry yeasts in bulk, (6) Ale yeasts and (3) Lager strains

you have to set up an account with them as a brewery to see those products listed.:D

[BigWilley]

Crosby and Baker. Call them and ask for the 500gram packs.
I actually have my first beer pitched with SO-4 (Pale Ale) finishing up primary as we speak. I'll post my results.

[deadvet]

Thats what i figured, just wast sure if they were the only supplier.

thanks

[v2comp]

while I am not sure if they are the only ones, I can say that they were very helpful in the beginning, and and one of the few things I still buy from them is dry yeast. always been very professional and easy to work with from my standpoint.

[BigWilley]

Filtered my first beer (Pale Ale) done with the S-04 Friday. Good results. Started at 15P ended at 3.2P with 4.5 days active primary, pitched 500grams dry directly into the wort no rehydration. Oxygenated at about 1/2 the level I usually do. I usually use WLP 001 so the beer definately finished higher, 3.2 as opposed to right around 2P for 001. Nice soft mouth feel, hops were a bit muted compared to 001, but I expected that. Pretty clean and neutral with a very subdued fruitiness that is barely noticeable. I did not get the best yeast harvest but that was probably because i pitched a little on the low side. I will try the S-05 pretty soon to see how it performs. Overall i am happy with the current results. The repitched batch should be ready by the end of this week (red ale( and I will see how it comes out. The yeast I did harvest was very thick and compact compared to 001. Reminded me of when I used White labs Dry English Ale yeast.

[critch]

s-04 and lallemand nottingham are the workhorses in our brewery weve very rarely encountered a problem with them and when we have its normally due to equipment failure or staff error

ive brewed a number of award and festival winning beers with these two:)

[Larry Horwitz]

I've got to tell you....I NEVER thought I'd be saying this....the dry yeast from Fermentis is incredible. I've used the entire lineup without issue. It has blown my mind. The entire line is repitchable, the only one that seems to have trouble is the Hefe strain, but then so does the liquid form.

the instructions say to re-hydrate, but we've had great luck just pitching dry. I also believe it lowers the contamination possible with using water.

on cost, WAY cheaper then liquid cultures. I feel guilty now if I have to buy liquid (mostly due to needing a specific strain)

do it, you won't be dissapointed.