Kettle Steam leak affect on wort?

[brewmar]

Anyone have any experience with getting a steam jacket leak during the boil in your kettle, and any affects this had on young and finished beer?

Thanks in advance,

John

[beertje46]

Depends on if the leak is toward the wort side or not.

[brewmar]

That much I could figure out.

If it wasn't on the wort side I wouldn't have asked the question.

[beertje46]

That much I could figure out.

If it wasn't on the wort side I wouldn't have asked the question.

M-kay. I would not hesitate to dump the batch now. Even if (or maybe because) you use no treatment on your boiler (http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14805). At a minimum you'll have added iron oxide (rust) to your wort.

[kai]

Just keep tasting the beer throughout the process and see if you pick up any difference. I wouldn't go dumping any beer unless you're tasting any genuine defects. I've drunk many beers in my time and, post drinko, found out that a few have been exposed to live steam and have not detected any difference.

[BrewinLou]

I do not know what boiler treatment chemical tastes like, and I do not want to either. I am sure of one thing, the treatment we use in the boiler is not remotely made for human consumption. You can not go by taste when it comes to chemicals.

[lhall]

Your water treatment chemicals should be staying in the boiler, not coming up with the steam. The only worry would be iron from rust in the steam lines.

[brewmar]

Thanks guys.

I agree with Linus that the only thing that leaves the boiler is steam. Not chemicals.

We didn't see any evidence of rust at the leak joint when my welder repaired it either. We think it was a thermal expansion/contraction failure.

We will continue to taste and monitor the wort through fermentation. If in doubt, we'll throw it out.

Appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.

John

[fcaseyf]

If you don't have chemicals in your steam you have another problem. Your boiler and all piping need need those chemicals to last, without them your going to be buying all new piping and a new boiler to add to the kettle with a hole in it in time.

[canyon]

If you decide to sell this contaminated beer you better let the customers know. If I am purchasing your beer and I find out (even a rumor works here) that it was contaminated and it wasn't sold as such, I am going to quit your product/establishment and tell everyone I know and the loss will ultimately be much greater than not selling the beer. Drink it yourself if you aren't concerned but don't pass it on. Your beer karma will suffer. :)

[brewmar]

Yeah, we decided to dump it yesterday.

Just is not worth it. Steam leak is fixed. We'll double brew next week to catch up on production.

thanks again for the input.

John

[beertje46]

Yeah, we decided to dump it yesterday.

Just is not worth it. John

Good man, you did the right thing. Use the lose to your advantage by holding your value of high quality beer being # 1 to anyone that asks.

[liammckenna]

Beware boiler chemical salespeople.

Untreated steam is not necessarily a problem for pipework/boiler with regular blowdown cycles and soft water.


Pax.

Liam

[dick murton]

I realise that as far as this particular instance is concerned, it has been dealt with in a manner that will not give rise to any worries re boiler chemicals in beer.

However, just in case anyone is interested, there are a couple of systems out there in use which use live steam injection. One at least claims to have had good results using injected boiler steam with FDA approved boiler treatment chemicals only. However, I know I would still want to use "clean steam" from RO or distilled water produced via a suitable heat exchanger system.

See Meura and Pursuit Dynamics websites for a few details

Cheers

[Darel Matthews]

Our mash tun is live steam injection. Don't fear the steam.

[Mitch Steele]

I'd suggest tasting your steam condensate. That's what would be getting into the wort.
Most places I've worked, dumping is the best option.

[Gregg]

See Meura and Pursuit Dynamics websites for a few detailsThanks for the reminder about PDX - I have asked them what the minimum brew length that their wort boiler design could reasonably operate with.

[dick murton]

Meura also use live steam injection for mash vessels. Again, I know there have been concerns about boiler treatment chemicals. I've also heard of a few home grown systems to augment inefficient steam jackets, or totally replace them without having to buy a complete new mash vessel

And now I think about it, I remember hearing of people using steam lances to heat up mash tuns that had been mashed in too cold. Far more effective than hot water as the lance could be moved around, with little dilution of the mash. Bet it wasn't fun to handle the lance though, so I don't think it was something that would have been done regularly.

[dick murton]

Thanks for the reminder about PDX - I have asked them what the minimum brew length that their wort boiler design could reasonably operate with.


They were originally trialling it at BRI, and using, I think, a 10 or 15 hl kettle with a one inch recirc loop. It ws a bit of a Heath Robinson setup at that time - but it obviously worked, hence the commercial product

[Gregg]

They were originally trialling it at BRI, and using, I think, a 10 or 15 hl kettle with a one inch recirc loop. It ws a bit of a Heath Robinson setup at that time - but it obviously worked, hence the commercial productFrom PDX's own literature, it is a 100 l system! (http://www.pursuitdynamics.com/ourproducts-wort-further-info.php) Do you know anyone apart from Shepherd Neame who has one in production?

[dick murton]

Not at the moment. I haven't been in detailed touch with PD recently. I belive Coors in B-o-T were looking at it, but am not sure just how far they got with it

Re size, just goes to show how you get the facts wrong when you don't go back into the archived stuff first (my collection of junk that is)

Cheers

[Gregg]

Update : PDX say we are too small (at 25 hl) to fit their live steam system. I suspect that, in large part, this is due to their assessment that the operating cost savings would be overwhelmed by the capital cost. They do say they would hope to develop something to suit the smaller brewery in the future; I will leave that for somene else.