First hops, now yeast!

[gitchegumee]

Just tried placing a routine order for Nottingham dry yeast and was shocked to learn that the price had increased from around $40 a half kilo to $145! We've been using this for 10 years and were given no notice of any price increase. Anybody else have sticker shock? I like the yeast and know how to use it to great effect. But I guess I'll be in the market for a replacement--any suggestions? Small brewers can't afford to get squeezed like this.

[beertje46]

That is a hell of a jump! It is kind of ironic that as I read your post the banner advert to the left is Nottingham Ale Yeast $30,000 Challenge (http://www.brainofbrewers.com/about2.html) I guess we know how this contest is being financed...

[twoodward15]

It's $1.25 for an 11 gram package at my local homebrew store. There's about 453 grams in a pound. A half kilo is slightly more than a pound. it would take about 50 packets to get a half kilo at $1.25 each which equals $62.50. You are getting shafted....unless I haven't seen the price increase at my store yet.

[d_gardonio]

Yeah, looks like the yeast has unionized. I work for a small brewery in Canada that packages wort kits with small dried yeast packages. The prices for our Nottingham has doubled up here, as well as some of the other strains that we use. I'm hazy on the specifics because I'm a slave to production, but I know that our nottingham price has at least doubled.

I don't have any suggestions for a replacement. I just think that if you are happy with you beer product then you shouldn't "rock the boat". Besides, yeast is your only raw material that will reproduce itself, so maybe you shouldn't worry so much about the yeast price increase. I'd be more concerned about malt, hops, utilities, labour, etc.

But I don't know how you operate, so I'm not trying to pass judgment. So this post doesn't really have any help only empathy for your situation.

Dave

Lead Hand
Magnotta Brewery
Vaughan, Ontario

[Jephro]

Propagate, Propagate, Propagate...
You can't exactally plant malted barley or hop pellets, but... ...yeast is your only raw material that will reproduce itself,

[mr.jay]

Sounds like an error to me. If not, I HIGHLY reccommend Brewing Science Institute for all of your yeast needs. I just made the switch, and by comparison could have saved hundreds of dollars over the past few years. They also provide a nutrient boost to supplement the yeast on brew day, and swabs to test ferrules and other possible sources of contamination. They also have a quick turn around time. Two guys run this business, and they are both very knowlegable brewers. White Labs has been good to me, and I will miss them dearly, but I don't hesitiate for a second in thinking that this was a SUPER wise descision, especially in these hard economic times.

Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do!;)

Check them out!

[GlacierBrewing]

I'll second, third and forth what Mr Jay sez. I've used BSI for almost my entire brewing career and have been extremely happy with their support and products. They're located near Colorado Springs, Colorado and I'm in northwestern Montana and I've always gotten quality product from them. Their pricing is very fair. Make the switch and make yourself happy!
Prost!
Dave

[gitchegumee]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll check out these other options. I've used SO4 in the past with great results. I really like Nottingham, it can be coaxed into some really nice esters that make our Amber Ale a fantastic brew. Propagation would be a choice if I had more of a lab and assistants versed in microbiology. Or it will become a necessity and I'll do more training. Matter of fact, I used to run a brewery where I repitched five different liquid yeast strains to brew 7 different beers. As it is, dried yeast gives my current employees an easy pitch and consistent, excellent results. Repitching with Nottingham would have to be done differently as we don't aerate at all with a fresh package. I guess I'll have to exercise the craft and add to my knowledge of new yeasts and new yeast handling techniques.

[beerking1]

Piling on here in favor of BSI. These guys know their stuff, and they will even do custom yeast blends at no additional charge.

[Woolsocks]

Any word from Lallemand who moderates this forum? I don't use Nottingham, but saw updated pricing a while ago and thought it was a typo. Probably cheaper to buy a pitch of liquid strain from BSI at that price. Then pitch it into 20 batches or so and you're good!

[lallemand]

Indeed the price of our brewer’s dry yeast significantly increased on April 22nd and there are some good reasons behind this.
In order to meet brewers’ standards our yeasts are produced in small volume and undergo an extensive quality control. Additionally, the cost of yeast manufacture has increased substantially over the past year and many input costs have not come down in 2009. More importantly, we are committed to investing in R&D and to be a long-term supplier to the brewing industry but like any business we need to have a sustainable return on investment. Part of our commitment is also to provide superior level of technical support to the commercial brewers. This also explains the price difference between the 500g packs and the sachets where no extra support is provided.

The new price is very similar to pitchable liquid yeast (price per bbl inoculated) with all the advantage of a dry yeast. We can advise you on rehydration, propagation and repitching; in our experience once the yeast is rehydrated it is liquid and you can use it the exact same way you would use a wet version.

We are pleased that the brewers have noticed the quality of Nottingham, its consistency and convenience and we hope that you will continue to support the product despite the increase in price. We would also invite you to enter the competition which is associated with the launch of our new and improved Nottingham Ale Yeast, which is now endorsed with the quality seal of the Siebel Institute of Technology.

Sylvie Van Zandycke
Technical Sales Manager
Lallemand Brewing

[Woolsocks]

So am I to understand that the cheapest way to use Nottingham yeast is to buy a bunch of 11-gram packets from the local homebrew store?

[gitchegumee]

Sylvie, thank you for your discussion. R&D is not cheap. Neither is the energy costs necessary for drying product. Besides hops and yeast, our energy costs have doubled in the past year. We can't go on with this kind of upward spiral without falling. Regarding your statement:
"....once the yeast is rehydrated it is liquid and you can use it the exact same way you would use a wet version."
My limited experience is different. Wet pitchable yeasts generally require oxygen to reproduce sufficiently for proper fermentation. The Nottingham we use is both UNDERpitched (according to your recommendations) and NOT oxygenated at all. As a result, we get a very nice ester profile that is signature to our Amber Ale with a quick ferment at moderate temperatures. This without yeast nutrient, and still achieving high attenuation. We have not been able to reproduce this exactly with either other propagated liquid cultures, or with repitched Nottingham. It seems like a one-off proposition. Granted I have not tried every conceivable variation on fermentation parameters and I'd love to know how to repitch Nottingham so that the flavor profile is consistent whether I'm using a new rehydrated dried yeast, or a repitch from previous fermentation. If I can't come up with a solution, I have no choice but change house yeasts. Pricing yeast at half the cost of malt per batch is just not in our budget. Thanks for your help.

[wiredgourmet]

We've secretly bumped prices 350% due to colossal blunders in our financial planning. Let's see if anyone notices.

The explanations offered would account for a 10-12% bump in any sanely-managed outfit. An increase like this indicates sheer panic.

[beertje46]

The explanations offered would account for a 10-12% bump in any sanely-managed outfit. An increase like this indicates sheer panic.

Agreed.

We've secretly bumped prices 350% due to colossal blunders in our financial planning. Let's see if anyone notices.

Actually 362.5% but once you get past double who's to notice...

So am I to understand that the cheapest way to use Nottingham yeast is to buy a bunch of 11-gram packets from the local homebrew store?

Unless you want/require support from the manufacturer. The explanation reads as if they are not supporting the small sachets.

[DancingCamel]

On the "Old" Nottingham we were getting 4-5 generations before we would start noticing changes to the fermentation (attenuation primarily). Am I to understand that now we should be able to get 10-12 generations with the "New" Nottingham, similar to a liquid strain?

[lallemand]

Sylvie, thank you for your discussion. R&D is not cheap. Neither is the energy costs necessary for drying product. Besides hops and yeast, our energy costs have doubled in the past year. We can't go on with this kind of upward spiral without falling. Regarding your statement:
"....once the yeast is rehydrated it is liquid and you can use it the exact same way you would use a wet version."
My limited experience is different. Wet pitchable yeasts generally require oxygen to reproduce sufficiently for proper fermentation. The Nottingham we use is both UNDERpitched (according to your recommendations) and NOT oxygenated at all. As a result, we get a very nice ester profile that is signature to our Amber Ale with a quick ferment at moderate temperatures. This without yeast nutrient, and still achieving high attenuation. We have not been able to reproduce this exactly with either other propagated liquid cultures, or with repitched Nottingham. It seems like a one-off proposition. Granted I have not tried every conceivable variation on fermentation parameters and I'd love to know how to repitch Nottingham so that the flavor profile is consistent whether I'm using a new rehydrated dried yeast, or a repitch from previous fermentation. If I can't come up with a solution, I have no choice but change house yeasts. Pricing yeast at half the cost of malt per batch is just not in our budget. Thanks for your help.


Hi Phillip, yes you are right in the fact that once dry yeast is rehydrated it does not need oxygen because the membranes already have the necessary lipds for cell division. However, if you do aerate it won't harm the yeast either. So i guess my point was yes you can use rehydrated dry yeast just the same as you would use liquid yeast but it has many more advantages!
If you do repitch Nottingham then you will need to aerate. Matching the first fermentation with the subsequent ones will be what we will have to work on. I will contact you directly for further discussions.

Thanks for the feedback
Sylvie

[lallemand]

On the "Old" Nottingham we were getting 4-5 generations before we would start noticing changes to the fermentation (attenuation primarily). Am I to understand that now we should be able to get 10-12 generations with the "New" Nottingham, similar to a liquid strain?

Yes absolutely giving that the parameters of fermentation and nutrition are adequate. I will be happy to assist in a repitching program, please contact me directly svanzandycke@lallemand.com to pursue this discussion further.
Thanks

[lallemand]

Unless you want/require support from the manufacturer. The explanation reads as if they are not supporting the small sachets.

Just one clarification on the technical support offered with the Lallemand products. We are supporting our sachet business just not to the extend of the commercial 500g packs. The needs are also different in both cases. All questions regarding any of our products will always be answered. Don't hesitate to contact me at svanzandycke@lallemand.com

[matthendry]

Yeah, looks like the yeast has unionized. I work for a small brewery in Canada that packages wort kits with small dried yeast packages. The prices for our Nottingham has doubled up here, as well as some of the other strains that we use. I'm hazy on the specifics because I'm a slave to production, but I know that our nottingham price has at least doubled.

I don't have any suggestions for a replacement. I just think that if you are happy with you beer product then you shouldn't "rock the boat". Besides, yeast is your only raw material that will reproduce itself, so maybe you shouldn't worry so much about the yeast price increase. I'd be more concerned about malt, hops, utilities, labour, etc.

But I don't know how you operate, so I'm not trying to pass judgment. So this post doesn't really have any help only empathy for your situation.

Dave

Lead Hand
Magnotta Brewery
Vaughan, Ontario

Mauri package thier yeast in 15g sachets and used to be available in Canada from Superior brewing for the homebrew market but your best bet is to contact mauri Directly in Australia where they make the yeast and their biggest customer is Coopers for their home-brew concentrates .There's a few suppliers that sell 500gm bricks of Mauri 514 Ale in the US to microbreweries .Mauri yeast is a good standby and far cheaper than the prices being Quoted by Lallemand at the moment its a shame because Notingham Ale is a great yeast .

[ChrisS68]

Hi Matt,
You say that Mauri used to be available from Superior. I guess that explains why it's been discontinued at all the retailers... That's really disappointing as I've been really pleased with Superior Lager yeast (Mauribrew Lager 497), both in performance and price. It's a workhorse of a yeast and has been my go-to.

You seem to be in-the-know. Do you, or anyone, know where Mauribrew Lager 497 can be purchased in the 15 gram sachets? I've asked around, but few people have much knowledge about this yeast (for whatever reason, lagers aren't big in homebrewing, which may explain Mauri/Superior pulling the plug on it). I can't seem to find any retailers that carry it, even in Austalia. I know there are distributers in the US that carry the 500 gram packs, but being a homebrewer, such quantities are out of the question. Well... unless I up my batch sizes a bit.
hmmm...
Thanks a bunch!

Chris