Glass Washers

[Pint]

I was wondering what type of automatic glass washers people are using? And what kind of detergents, sanitizers, rinse additives? I have a concern about rinse additives ending up in my beer, I would like to omit to rinse additive step in our glass washer, (I dont want any additives ending up in my beer)but the pub manager is not co-operating with me complaining about water spots on the glassware. Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Valleybrew]

Too bad your owner has its head up its a$$. Water spots on beer glassware (or any restaurant glassware) is unacceptable in these modern times of indoor plumbing, heated water and yes detergents!!!! Enough soap box. I have found the most effective leverage I have is calling up my dishwashing chemical supplier and have him come in personally and show him the problem. Spend a few minutes explaining the problem and have him inspect the equipment. You would amazed at how easily the dish was machines get out of calibration on chemical dispense, the spray nozzles need to be cleaned and make sure you have an effective de-spotting chemical in the final rinse. Also, check water temps. If they aren't responsive call some one else in for quotes and you would amazed how aggressive these guys are to get the business. We switched vendors 4 times last years until we found the one that works for us. As a final non chemical approach train your bar/waitstaff to hand polish glassware with a linen cloth.

[jfulton]

In my brewpub we use a device called the Spulboy (the "u" in the name has the two dots over it). They provide the detergent as well. This is a small hand washer with brushes and automatic rinsing that is actually kinda fun to use! It leaves a beautiful Belgian lace on the glass everytime. It's from Germany I believe, but it works magic. Cheers! Jamie Fulton

[Larry Horwitz]

Spul boys are illegal in the U.S. as they don't sanitize....that being said, use one if you can. they are great. Yes, do call your dish machine guy, they will do great things for you. No, don't use the rinse aid (Jet dry etc.) that every dish machine company wants you to use. While this chemical will leave the glasses spot free, it will kill all of the head on your beer.

If your manager won't cooperate, get 2 glasses. One should be straight out of the tank, and the other will be a glass that you have cleaned by hand (get it really clean and dry by using a glass that is new and hasn't been run through the grease filled machine and using some caustic or a high quality detergent to clean it) fill both with beer, and put them on the bar for your guy to see. Yours will look great all the way to the bottom (proper lace etc) and his will look like apple juice!

Also, be aware that some health inspectors, and therefore some restaurant managers are under the mistaken impression that rinse aid is sanitizer, and is required by law. I recently had this sort of run in with a local inspector. Education is the key (or just wait 'till they leave and pull the draw tube out of the jet dry!)

At my pub, we have a dish machine just for beer glassware. It helps to keep the grease and dairy off of the beer glasses. Don't want spots? feed it with softened water. Stay away from rines aids, and quat as a sanitizer, it's a strong surface active agent and will also kill the head on your beer. you want chlorine if you can get it, at make sure it is being metered at the lowest level allowable. If you are getting a free (or cheap) dish machine from your chemical guy make sure you are aware that his motive is to sell chemicals, not get your glasses beer clean.

Good luck!

[raucher]

Larry,

Any chance you could divulge the model of this glass washer. How many do you have and what is your peak volume?

Thanks,
Jay

[Larry Horwitz]

Our unit is a Jackson Omega 5 single rack dish machine. It was supplied to us by Ecolab (see my earilier post). The only thing special about this machine is that we only use it for Beer glasses. nothing else goes through the machine. nothing. also, we had the ecolab guy disconnect the pump for the jet dry

We have one machine in the kitchen at my location, but they are usually located at the bar (we had a code isssue that required it to be relocated...it was a stupid code... but we still had to move it...)

On a busy night, the machine runs about a rack every 3-5 mins (24 glasses)

[gitchegumee]

Looking for some new input to an old, but very useful topic. We have small glass washers at our bars--like a mini-dishwasher. Everything our cleaning supply guy shows us has rinse agent built in. This region has very hard water and seems that nobody makes a detergent without rinse aid. Any suggestions from players like Diversey, Ecolab, or other institutional suppliers? Certainly want proper lacing on glasses.

[LongLiveLagers]

Looks like the Spuel Boy is a pretty sweet!:cool:

I think it would be "legal" if you had an extra sink filled with a sanitizer. I agree with Larry that just a little chlorine is the way to go. Or if you're familiar, you could use some of Micro-Matic's (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=beer+clean&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14264655669351925105&sa=X&ei=Jn73Te-zBKrliALYi7n9DA&ved=0CEgQ8wIwAg) stuff. The industry term is "Beer Clean (http://www.draughtquality.org/w/page/18182231/Testing%20for%20%E2%80%9CBeer-Clean%E2%80%9D%20Glass)".

Do any companies make a product for direct use in a glass washer that is rated "Beer Clean", i.e. no rinse-aids, low aroma, etc.?

All I've found are for use in a sink with brushes like the Spuel Boy. That's all fine and dandy as our bartenders do wash the glasses by hand when it's not busy. But during dinner rush, our glasses go into a greasy glasswasher that kills our head.

It breaks my heart to see our brilliantly filtered, properly carbonated, heavy headed Pilsner poured into an American shaker pint with no head.:mad:

Kevin
Chuckanut Brewery

[NationalChem]

Spul boys are illegal in the U.S. as they don't sanitize....that being said, use one if you can. they are great.

I just wanted to clarify on this one.... Spülboy units are in fact "legal" in the United States. We are the distributor in North America and have been for several years. The device does meet NSF Certification and standards.

As far as sanitizing you are correct, the machine doesn't sanitize. However, to my knowledge I don't believe their is a 3 sink glass washer that sanitizes.

In the U.S. for three sink setup you need to do the following:

1st Sink: Wash
2nd Sink: Rinse
3rd Sink: Sanitize

The Spülboy can complete the first two steps(sink 1 and sink 2) in 1 sink.

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As far as the glass washing end of it their are a few compounds I would avoid using to sanitize:

1. Bleach
2. Quaternary Ammonium products

- Bleach products if over dosed can cause issues as well as off flavors on glassware.
- Quat products are wonderful all purpose sanitizers but they aren't great friends with beer glasses. They tend to leave a film behind that can cause bubbles to hold on the side walls as well as head retention issues.

Hope this information helps, if you have any questions let me know.

[NationalChem]

Sorry for the double post, if you need any additional information on chemicals or the Spülboy let me know. You can drop me an e-mail anytime.

[gitchegumee]

I love spulboy glass cleaners. My specific problem is with rinse agents added to hard water detergent formulations. What specific glass cleaner is used with Spulboy? I'd like to know what glass detergents are specifically formulated for beer glasses and have no rinse agents in them. As I've said, it seems like everyone loves rinse agents except brewers and their discriminating customers.

[gitchegumee]

Bump. Detergents specific to glass washers? Would prefer a tablet type. Ecolab recommends their "Guardian Clean" product. Anyone using this?

[NationalChem]

National Chemicals, Inc. is the distributor of the NSF approved Spülboy in North America. We actually manufacture a tablet product called Spültab for use in the glass washing device.


One thing that can have a huge impact on your glassware presentation and appearance outside of the detergent and rinse additives is the sanitizer. One type of sanitizer that can cause issues are the quat sanitizers. They tend to leave a film on the glass that can cause head retention issues as well as problems with lacing. Quat sanitizer products have several applications however, draft beer glasses are not the best application for this product.

[otsegobrewer]

Jason,
What sanitizer do you recommend using with the Spulboy system?

[NationalChem]

Jason,
What sanitizer do you recommend using with the Spulboy system?

Customers tend to like our BTF Chlor-Tab because it is portion controlled and works well with the ecosystem. The canister on the Spülboy uses a tablet product for the detergent; keeping it simple with tabs prevents overdosing on the sanitizer. Iodophor could be an option as well, you may already have this in your establishment.